Topic: Joomla!/SOBI2/SobiSEF - SEF URL's and breadcrumb/pathway construction

[aboututila]

I have written this note in response to several users postings/questions/problems/issues with SEF URL's and breadcrumb/pathway (and to some extent the Web Browser Title bar) not being constructed as those users were originally expecting or anticipating.

Construction of the Web Browser Title bar by the SOBI2 Component is a related topic, Refer How the browser title is generated (when the SOBI2 Component is generating output)

It is a difficult for me to clearly explain SEF URL's and breadcrumb/pathway construction, because it is complicated and depends on Joomla!/SOBI2/SEF configurations.
I hope the following explanation may provide Joomla!/SOBI2/SobiSEF users with some understanding of the issues.

(1) Joomla! native SEF URL's and breadcrumb/pathway construction (no SEF Components/plugins)
When Joomla! native SEO is enabled, the format of the URL for any given Joomla! Menu Item is normally constructed by Joomla! using the Menu Item Title Alias, and the breadcrumb/pathway is normally constructed by Joomla! using the Menu Item Title.
For example,
a Joomla! Menu Item with;
 Menu Title = 'Menu Item Title', and
 Menu Title Alias = 'menu-item-title-alias'
results in the URL;
 http://mysite.com/menu-item-title-alias
and in the breadcrumb/pathway;
 Home > Menu Item Title
where;
'Home' is constructed from the Menu Item Title of the default Joomla! Menu Item.

(2) Important - Understanding the default Joomla! Menu Item
(a) When Joomla! is initially installed, the Menu Item = Home with Type = Articles >> Frontpage in the Menu = Main Menu, is configured as the default Joomla! Menu Item.
Refer http://docs.joomla.org/Screen.menus.15#Screenshot

(b) The default Joomla! Menu Item defines the 'home page' for the web site (the default Joomla! Menu Item determines what content Joomla! displays for the URL configured for the Joomla! Configuration Parameter $live_site.
$live_site is normally configured as the Web Site root URL (ie: http://MyWebSite.com)
Refer Joomla Administrator->Help->System Info->Configuration File->$live_site

(c) The default Joomla! Menu Item is configured using;
Joomla Administrator->Menus
The Menu containing the default Joomla! Menu Item will be shown with an asterisk after the Menu Name.
When the Joomla! Menu Item Manager displays the Menu Items of the Menu containing the default Joomla! Menu Item, the default Menu Item will show a 'star' in the column titled 'default'.

(d) The default Joomla! Menu Item cannot be unpublished or deleted, but it can be reconfigured to another Menu Item, or another Menu Item in another Menu.

(e) Joomla! requires that one, and only one, Menu Item must always be configured as the default Joomla! Menu Item.
Refer http://docs.joomla.org/Screen.menus.15#Toolbar - Default.

(3) Joomla! native SEF URL's and SEF Components/plugins
When Joomla! native SEO is enabled and/or other SEF components/plugins are enabled, the format of the breadcrumb/pathway normally follows that of the URL (or vice-versa).
For example, for the URL
 http://mysite.com/menu-item-title-alias/optionA/optionB
the breadcrumb/pathway is normally displayed as;
 Home > Menu Item Title > optionA > optionB
where,
'Home' is constructed from the Menu Title of the default Joomla! Menu Item Title,

(4) Menu Items and SOBI2 (Joomla! native SEF, no SEF Components/plugins)
When a Menu Item is linked to the SOBI2 Component using the SOBI2 Extended Menu Items,
URL's are of the form;
 http://mysite.com/menu-item-title-alias/?option(s)
where;
menu-item-title-alias is constructed from the Menu Item Title of the Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Component, and,
option(s) =
the SOBI2 Task Name, and/or,
the SOBI2 Category Id's, and/or,
the SOBI2 Entry Id's
for example;
http://mysite.com/menu-item-title-alias/?sobi2Task=sobi2Details&catid=2&sobi2Id=54

and the breadcrumb/pathway is of the form;
  Home > Menu Item Title > optionX > optionY
where,
'Home' is constructed from the Menu Title of the default Joomla! Menu Item Title,
and,
optionX =
the SOBI2 Task Name, or,
the SOBI2 Category Name(s), and/or,
the SOBI2 Entry Title
optionY (if present) =
the SOBI2 Category Name(s), and/or,
the SOBI2 Entry Title

(5) A Joomla! Menu Item linked to a SOBI2 Category
When you have a Joomla! Menu Item linked to a SOBI2 Category or Sub-Category using the SOBI2 Extended Menu Items - Category Links,
then assuming the Joomla! Menu Item Title is 'SOBI2 Category Name'
then the Joomla! Menu Item Title Alias is normally 'sobi2-category-name'
and the format of the URL is;
 http://mysite.com/sobi2-category-name/
and the format of the breadcrumb/pathway is;
 Home > SOBI2 Category Name

But, it is possible to configure the Joomla! Menu Item Title to something other than the SOBI2 Category Name for a SOBI2 Category Link.
Let us assume you configure the Joomla! Menu Item Title to 'My Name',
then the Joomla! Menu Item Title Alias is automatically configured by the SOBI2 Extended Menu Items to be 'my-name',
and the format of the URL is;
 http://mysite.com/my-name/
and the format of the breadcrumb/pathway is;
 Home > My Name

(6) Multiple Joomla! Menu Items linked to the SOBI2 Component
It is also possible to have more than one Joomla! Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Component using SOBI2 Extended Menu Items.
Assume the SOBI2 'root Category' has two sub-Categories;
 Level1aCategory, and
 Level1bCategory
and you configure;
(a) a Joomla! Menu Item linked using SOBI2 Extended Menu Items to the SOBI2 FrontPage and configure the Joomla Menu Item Title = 'Directory' for this link,
and
(b) a Joomla! Menu Item linked using SOBI2 Extended Menu Items to the SOBI2 Level1aCategory and configure the Joomla Menu Item Title = 'First Category' for this link,
then the resulting URL's are of the form;
 http://mysite.com/Directory/
 http://mysite.com/First Category/
 http://mysite.com/Directory/Level1bCategory/
and the breadcrumb/pathway are of the form;
 Home > Directory
 Home > First Category
 Home > Directory > Level1bCategory

(7) The SOBI2 Frontpage is the Joomla! Frontpage
The situation becomes further complicated when you configure the SOBI2 Frontpage to be the Joomla! Frontpage. This is when you have configured the Joomla! Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Frontpage (index.php?option=com_sobi2) as the default Joomla! Menu Item. (Refer above - Understanding the default Joomla! Menu Item)

In this case, the default Joomla! Menu Item (there is always one, and can only be one) will always be assigned the site root URL ($live_site) (for example; http://mysite.com), refer http://docs.joomla.org/Screen.menus.15#Toolbar.
Let us assume you configure default Joomla! Menu Item with the Menu Item Title = Home,
then the resulting URL's are of the form;
 http://mysite.com/
 http://mysite.com/First Category/
 http://mysite.com/Level1bCategory/
and the breadcrumb/pathway are of the form;
 Home
 Home > First Category
 Home > Level1bCategory

(8) The situation can become even more complicated when
(a) you make the SOBI2 Frontpage the same as the Joomla! Frontpage,
AND
(b) you configure another Joomla! Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Frontpage (index.php?option=com_sobi2) and, let us assume, you assign this Joomla! Menu Item a different Title = 'Directory'.
Then depending which Joomla! Menu Item you 'click' on;
the URL's can be of the form;

(c) If you follow the Joomla! Menu Item with Title = 'Directory' link
then URL's are of the form;
 http://mysite.com/Directory
 http://mysite.com/First Category/
 http://mysite.com/Directory/Level1bCategory/
and the breadcrumb/pathway is of the form;
 Home > Directory
 Home > First Category
 Home > Directory > Level1bCategory

(d) but, if you follow the Joomla! Menu Item with Title = 'Home' link
then URL's are of the form;
 http://mysite.com/
 http://mysite.com/First Category/
 http://mysite.com/Directory/Level1bCategory/
and the breadcrumb/pathway is of the form;
 Home
 Home > First Category
 Home > Level1bCategory

once again, this may be further complicated by the use of SEF Components/plugins.

(9) Apparent Duplicate Categories in Joomla! Breadcrumb Module
This problem is not a Joomla! or SOBI2 bug. It is an effect of Joomla! behavior by design.
The problem is causing confusion with SOBI2 Users because Joomla! Breadcrumb is not being constructed as SOBI2 Users expect.
If after reading the following you are still having a problem, then there is a 'hack' available for mod_breadcrumbs that removes apparent duplicates.
See SOLVED Duplicate Breadcrumbs
Trinity has also produced a template override for mod_breadcrumbs that does not involved 'hacking' the Joomla! core code
See mod_breadcrumbs template override - remove duplicate breadcrumb segment

Pre-conditions
All Joomla! Menu Item links to SOBI2 Component are configured using SOBI2 Extended Menu Items.
SobiSEF working correctly and as designed.

When a Joomla! Menu Item Link is made using SOBI2 Extended Menu Items,
which links a Joomla! Menu Item to a SOBI2 Category,
and that SOBI2 Category is not the SOBI2 Frontpage (or Root Category, index.php?option=com_sobi2),
and the Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Category is a child of the Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Frontpage,
and a SOBI2 Entry is assigned to that (non-Root) SOBI2 Category,

then the Breadcrumb constructed when the details view for that SOBI2 Entry is displayed can be of the form;
Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> SOBI2 Category link Menu-Item-Title -> SOBI2 Category Name ->SOBI2 Entry Title

Example 1 - A practical example illustrating SOBI2 Users problem.
Joomla! Default Menu Item Title = Home (not a link to SOBI2 Component)
[Refer above - (2) Important - Understanding the default Joomla! Menu Item]
and
Joomla! Menu Item Title of link to SOBI2 Frontpage (Root Category or index.php?option=com_sobi2) = 'Drinks'
and
Joomla! Menu Item Title of link to SOBI2 Category (with Category Name = 'Coffee') = 'Coffee'
and
Menu Item 'Drinks' is parent of Menu Item 'Coffee'
and
SOBI2 Entry with Title =  'Expresso' is assigned to SOBI2 Category 'Coffee'

Joomla Menu Items
Drinks
        |
        |_ Coffee

SOBI2 Categories
Drinks (Root Category = SOBI2 Frontpage)
        |
        |_ Coffee

SOBI2 Entries
SOBI2 Entry with Title = 'Expresso' is assigned to SOBI2 Category 'Coffee'

Then when the Details View of SOBI2 Entry with Title = 'Expresso' is displayed,
the Breadcrumb is constructed as follows;
Home -> Drinks -> Coffee -> Coffee -> Expresso

But SOBI2 Users are expecting a Breadcrumb to be constructed as follows;
Home -> Drinks -> Coffee -> Expresso

Example 2 - A generic example which may help SOBI2 Users understand the problem
Joomla! Default Menu Item Title = Home (not a link to SOBI2 Component)
Joomla! Menu Item Title of link to SOBI2 Frontpage (Root Category or index.php?option=com_sobi2) = 'SOBI2 Frontpage'
Joomla! Menu Item Title of link to SOBI2 Category (with SOBI2 Category Name = 'Category 1') = 'Category1 Menu Item Title'
and the parent Menu Item of the Joomla! Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Category is Joomla! Menu Item with Title = 'SOBI2 Frontpage'
and SOBI2 Entry with Title =  'SOBI2 Entry Title 1' is assigned to SOBI2 'Category 1'

Joomla Menu Items
SOBI2 Frontpage
            |
            |_ Category1 Menu Item Title

SOBI2 Categories
Root Category (SOBI2 Frontpage)
            |
            |_ Category 1

SOBI2 Entries
'SOBI2 Entry Title 1' is assigned to SOBI2 'Category 1'

then the Breadcrumb constructed when the details view of SOBI2 Entry with Title =  'SOBI2 Entry Title 1' is displayed is;
Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> Category1 Menu Item Title -> Category 1 -> SOBI2 Entry Title 1

SOBI2 Users are expecting the Breadcrumb to be constructed as follows;
Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> Category1 Menu Item -> SOBI2 Entry Title 1
or
Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> Category 1 -> SOBI2 Entry Title 1


Note: If you are using the SobiSEF plugin, I also urge you to read SobiSEF Plugin Configuration Essentials.

I hope this helps - Mark

[fewleh]

Hi Mark, an insanely detailed post, thanks for sharing that info, no doubt it will be useful.

Could any of this stuff be linked to an issue i'm having at the moment? Had tickets open for over a week on various boards, and nobody seems to be able to work it out..

I have sobi2 searchpage linked to a joomla menu item - called salon finder, where I just have the radius plugin running.
This is fine, as it is linked to a menu item, I can control the other site modules that show on this page.

However, when clicking on a v-card, to view the entry details in full.....obviously, these don't have menu links, and so there's no way of controlling what other site modules display?
Currently, when doing this, I get loads of additional modules...as if it is viewing the entry view, as linked to the homepage...as it comes up with all the showcase modules etc

Is there not a way of telling the entry view to use the same menu item as the main sobi2 components?

I hope you understand what I mean, and that it is related to your post in some way!

If you could shed any light, or even let me know of a new angle to explore, would eb great, because it's taking all my time at the moment..

Kind regards,

Olly.

(ps. I bought the radius search plug-in....but this issue I guess is to do with SOBI itself, and so I can't get support from the developers via a ticket )

[aboututila]

I hope you understand what I mean

fewleh,

No, sorry I don't understand what you mean.
Can I suggest you PM me a link to an existing post where you have you described your problem and also include a link to your site 'page' where you have the problem, so I can get some idea for what you are talking about.

Regards - Mark

[floridaman2009]

Hello Mark,

Thanks for detailed reply. I have the construction of breadcrumbs that varies within the same Category.

The urls [built with Sh404sef] are all fine, but the Title and Breadcrumbs vary within a similar CatID?

Enclosed is an example.

General Category/Product
URL: http://www.induguia.com/hoteleria-e-interiores/servicios/relaciones-publicas.html
BREADCRUMB: Inicio  Hoteleria e Interiores  SERVICIOS  RELACIONES PUBLICAS

1. Detail view with incorrect Breadcrumb
URL: http://www.induguia.com/details/hoteleria-e-interiores/alibe-concepto-mexico.html
BREADCRUMB: Inicio  Hoteleria e Interiores  ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO

2. Detail view with less incorrect Breadcrumb
URL: http://www.induguia.com/details/hoteleria-e-interiores/capacitacion-desarrollo-ltda.html
BREADCRUMB: Inicio  Hoteleria e Interiores  SERVICIOS  SERVICIOS DE CONSULTORIA  CAPACITACION & DESARROLLO LTDA.

3. Detail view with correct Breadcrumb
URL: http://www.induguia.com/details/hoteleria-e-interiores/planisf-marketing-prensa-brazil.html
BREADCRUMB: Inicio  Hoteleria e Interiores  SERVICIOS  RELACIONES PUBLICAS  PLANISF MARKETING PRENSA BRAZIL

Any suggestion where to look? I have Force Menu ID set to NO.

[aboututila]

floridaman2009,
I accessed your web site today.

I do not agree that your breadcrumbs are incorrect, since it is possible to navigate to each SOBI2 Entry using the breadcrumb path you describe. For example;

1. Detail view with incorrect Breadcrumb
URL: http://www.induguia.com/details/hoteleria-e-interiores/alibe-concepto-mexico.html
BREADCRUMB: Inicio  Hoteleria e Interiores  ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO

It is possible to navigate to this SOBI2 Entry by navigating as follows;
from your 'top' menu item 'Inico' go to the URL http://www.induguia.com/
from your 'left' menu item 'Directorios' click on the Menu Item 'Hoteleria e Interiores' URL=http://www.induguia.com/hoteleria-e-interiores.html
from the list of SOBI2 Entries displayed click on 'ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO' URL=http://www.induguia.com/details/hoteleria-e-interiores/alibe-concepto-mexico.html
The Breadcrumb displayed Inicio->Hoteleria e Interiores ->ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO
and is consistent with the path followed to reach the SOBI2 Entry.

The same is true for the pathway
Inicio->Hoteleria e Interiores ->SERVICIOS ->SERVICIOS DE CONSULTORIA ->CAPACITACION & DESARROLLO LTDA.
It is possible to navigate to the SOBI2 Entry 'CAPACITACION & DESARROLLO LTDA.' by this pathway.

The breadcrumb/pathway is built depending on how you navigate to a SOBI2 Entry.
It is possible for each SOBI2 Entry to have multiple breadcrumbs/pathways if there are multiple paths (you can follow a series of links) to the SOBI2 Entry.

However, I do notice a problem with your SOBI2 Component SEF URL's
Go to URL = http://www.induguia.com/
Click on the Alpha Index for the letter 'A' (URL=http://www.induguia.com/?letter=A) (this does not look like a correct SobiSEF URL)
On the resulting page, click on any pagination link, say 'Siguente' URL = http://www.induguia.com/?limit=15&limitstart=15
and you are returned to the SOBI2 Frontpage.

I suspect your problem is caused either by Joom!fish or sh404SEF. I do not believe the '?' should be in the SEF URL.

Regards - Mark

[floridaman2009]

Thank you Mark

1.

The breadcrumb/pathway is built depending on how you navigate to a SOBI2 Entry. It is possible for each SOBI2 Entry to have multiple breadcrumbs/pathways if there are multiple paths (you can follow a series of links) to the SOBI2 Entry.

Yes, I see what you mean, but I navigate via the SOBI front page option to:

http://www.induguia.com/hoteleria-e-interiores/servicios/relaciones-publicas.html

... the individual items do NOT reflect the Breadcrumb navigation when I click to them. Is this a Sh404sef issue?

2. I will check what is going on with the Alpha Index. [I thought I had that already solved ].

Thanks,

Max

[aboututila]

Max,

I was wrong when I said;
The breadcrumb/pathway is built depending on how you navigate to a SOBI2 Entry.
It is possible for each SOBI2 Entry to have multiple breadcrumbs/pathways if there are multiple paths (you can follow a series of links) to the SOBI2 Entry.

It is more complicated than this.
It is true that you can follow different paths to navigate to a SOBI2 Entry.

For example you can navigate to 'ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO'
following the path;
Inicio  -> Hoteleria e Interiores -> SERVICIOS  -> RELACIONES PUBLICAS -> 'ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO'

or you can follow the path;
Inicio  -> Hoteleria e Interiores  -> ALIBE CONCEPTO MEXICO

but it is NOT true that Joomla! will construct different pathways

I am currently reviewing Joomla!/SOBI2/SobiSEF - SEF URL's and breadcrumb/pathway construction to try and explain more clearly and accurately.

I believe that Joomla! only constructs one breadcrumb/pathway for each SOBI2 link
I believe that when Joomla! constructs a pathway for a SOBI2 link, the Joomla! Menu Item link pathway is given priority over the SOBI2 Component link pathway.
Such that if there are two possible navigation paths to a SOBI2 Entry;

Navigation Path (1)
Home(JDML) -> SOBI2 Frontpage(SCL) -> SOBI2 Category(SCL) -> SOBI2 Entry(SCL)
pathway(1) = Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> SOBI2 Category -> SOBI2 Entry

Navigation Path (2)
Home(JDML) -> SOBI2 Category(JML) -> SOBI2 Entry(SCL)
pathway(2) = Home -> SOBI2 Category -> SOBI2 Entry

where
(JDML) = the Joomla! Default Menu Item link (http://MyWebSite.com/)
(JML) = a link generated by a Joomla Menu Item
(SCL) = a link generated by the SOBI2 Component

For the SOBI2 Entry, Joomla! always displays the breadcrumb/pathway that contains the least SOBI2 Component links

There is probably a more generalized version of this rule, since the same applies to SOBI2 Category Views
For example;
If there are two possible paths to a SOBI2 Category view

Navigation Path (1)
Home(JML) -> SOBI2 Frontpage(SCL) -> SOBI2 Category(SCL) -> SOBI2 sub-Category(SCL)
pathway(1) = Home -> SOBI2 Frontpage -> SOBI2 Category -> SOBI2 sub-Category

Navigation Path (2)
Home(JML) -> SOBI2 Category(JML) -> SOBI2 sub-Category(SCL)
pathway(2) = Home -> SOBI2 Category -> SOBI2 sub-Category

then Joomla! will always display pathway(2) for the SOBI2 sub-Category

But I think it is more complicated than this and depends on Joomla! Menu Item ID numbers and Joomla! Menu Item Parent Items

Regards - Mark

[aboututila]

I have been working on the issue of trying to more clearly explain how Joomla! constructs breadcrumb/pathway.

Joomla! uses both Joomla! Menu Items and Component links to construct the breadcrumb/pathway, but I am struggling to create a simple and clear explanation of how it does this.

It is not necessarily a SOBI2 issue, it is an issue for all Components.
The problem is more apparent in SOBI2 because;
(a) of SOBI2's unlimited category->sub-category structure
(b) a SOBI2 entry can belong to more than one Category
(c) the output of the SOBI2 Component is very variable because of the large number of configuration options
(d) SEF URL's can be created using SobiSEF and/or other Joomla! SEF Components
basically, there are a lot of variables.

I think I will have to leave it for when I have lots of spare time.

Regards - Mark

[floridaman2009]

Thanks Mark...

From what I gather there is no easy solution. I will continue to review and if I find anything will advise.

Thank you again for your time.

Max Jaramillo

[aboututila]

Max,

The basis that Joomla! uses to build the breadcrumb/pathway is the same as is used to build SEF URL's and is explained (sort of) here http://docs.joomla.org/Routing
The issue with SOBI2 is that SOBI2 Extended Menu Items not only allow the creation of a Menu Item link to the Component (index.php?option=com_sobi2), but also Menu Items links to SOBI2 Categories and sub-Catgeories.
I am having trouble understanding how this works if there are multiple Menu Items linked to a Component and how Application (Component) Route Building works.

With regard to SOBI2 Categories, I think it works something like this.

When there is only one Joomla! Menu Item linked to the SOBI2 Component - (and it must be the SOBI2 Frontpage),
as the SOBI2 Category tree is navigated, SOBI2 will cause Joomla! to add SOBI2 Categories and Sub-Categories to the breadcrumb/pathway starting from the Default Joomla! Menu Item Title followed by the Joomla! Menu Item Title that is linked to the SOBI2 Frontpage, and then adding SOBI2 Categories and Sub-Categories Titles as the SOBI2 Category 'tree' is navigated.

For example;
breadcrumb/pathway is of the form;
Default(JMIT) -> (JMIT) for SOBI2 Frontpage -> (CLT)SOBI2 Category -> (CLT)SOBI2 Sub-Categories(if any) -> (CLT)SOBI2 Entry

where
JMIT = Joomla Menu Item Title (Title and link created by Joomla! Site Router)
CLT = (SOBI2) Component Link Title (Title and link created by SOBI2 Component Router and passed to Joomla! Router)

But,
when there is a Joomla! Menu Item linked to a SOBI2 Category or Sub-Category,
then the breadcrumb/pathway is built starting from that selected SOBI2 Category/Sub-Category position in the SOBI2 Category 'tree'
For example, the breadcrumb/pathway is of the form;
Default(JMIT) -> (JMIT) for SOBI2 Category -> (CLT)SOBI2 Sub-Categories(if any) -> (CLT)SOBI2 Entry

and for any given SOBI2 Entry, the Joomla! breadcrumb/pathway will always? display the 'shortest path' to that SOBI2 Entry.

Does this make sense?

Regards - Mark